Comments on: World’s first utility-scale, zero-emissions hydrogen power plant? http://knowledgeproblem.com/2009/07/15/worlds-first-utility-scale-hydrogen-power-plant/ Commentary on Economics, Information and Human Action Sun, 14 Mar 2010 16:14:55 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Jetstream announces more utility-scale, zero-emissions hydrogen power plants « Knowledge Problem http://knowledgeproblem.com/2009/07/15/worlds-first-utility-scale-hydrogen-power-plant/#comment-8901 Jetstream announces more utility-scale, zero-emissions hydrogen power plants « Knowledge Problem Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:56:02 +0000 http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=4989#comment-8901 [...] days after the company reportedly broke ground on their first plant in New Mexico, the Honolulu Advertiser reports that Jetstream Wind, Inc., has indicated plans to [...] [...] days after the company reportedly broke ground on their first plant in New Mexico, the Honolulu Advertiser reports that Jetstream Wind, Inc., has indicated plans to [...]

]]> By: Desertphile http://knowledgeproblem.com/2009/07/15/worlds-first-utility-scale-hydrogen-power-plant/#comment-8836 Desertphile Sun, 19 Jul 2009 19:02:26 +0000 http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=4989#comment-8836 The good news: the facility will never be built. The bad news: ignorant morons will be inducted to "invest" in this scam. The good news: the facility will never be built. The bad news: ignorant morons will be inducted to “invest” in this scam.

]]> By: bartman http://knowledgeproblem.com/2009/07/15/worlds-first-utility-scale-hydrogen-power-plant/#comment-8804 bartman Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:06:19 +0000 http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=4989#comment-8804 OK, the average house in the US consumes, on average, 1.2 kW, so 6,000 houses is 7.2 MW. But let's assume that this is a 10 MW plant. If this project actually costs $219 million, then we are looking at an installed cost of $21,900 per kW. That is INSANELY expensive - the high end estinmates for new nukes is $7,000 per kW, and gas turbines cost less than $1,000 per kW. Put another way, if this plant delivered 10 MW per hour every hour of the year, and was able to net $100/MW over ooperating costs, then it's net free cash flow would be about $8.7 million per year. Consider that given current power prices and assuming some O&M cost, this thing will likely net $2-3 million per year. So I ask, is a $2-$9 million per year return enough to justify a $219 million investment? Unlikely. My guess is that Jetstream Energy is a vehicle designed to separate fools and their money. This is yet another omen of the coming bubble in renewable energy, which will ikely be bigger (and inevitably messier) than the tech bubble or the housing bubble. OK, the average house in the US consumes, on average, 1.2 kW, so 6,000 houses is 7.2 MW. But let’s assume that this is a 10 MW plant. If this project actually costs $219 million, then we are looking at an installed cost of $21,900 per kW. That is INSANELY expensive – the high end estinmates for new nukes is $7,000 per kW, and gas turbines cost less than $1,000 per kW.

Put another way, if this plant delivered 10 MW per hour every hour of the year, and was able to net $100/MW over ooperating costs, then it’s net free cash flow would be about $8.7 million per year. Consider that given current power prices and assuming some O&M cost, this thing will likely net $2-3 million per year.

So I ask, is a $2-$9 million per year return enough to justify a $219 million investment?

Unlikely. My guess is that Jetstream Energy is a vehicle designed to separate fools and their money. This is yet another omen of the coming bubble in renewable energy, which will ikely be bigger (and inevitably messier) than the tech bubble or the housing bubble.

]]> By: Tom Konrad http://knowledgeproblem.com/2009/07/15/worlds-first-utility-scale-hydrogen-power-plant/#comment-8803 Tom Konrad Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:32:09 +0000 http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=4989#comment-8803 Sounds like a waste of resources to me, too. Sure, it might make sense to convert some of the RE into hydrogen, when there is excess supply, but the reound trip efficiency we're tlaking about here is less than 50%... it seems much more economical to store the excess electricity in more economical forms, such as CAES or lead-acid batteries. Sounds like a waste of resources to me, too. Sure, it might make sense to convert some of the RE into hydrogen, when there is excess supply, but the reound trip efficiency we’re tlaking about here is less than 50%… it seems much more economical to store the excess electricity in more economical forms, such as CAES or lead-acid batteries.

]]> By: John Bailo http://knowledgeproblem.com/2009/07/15/worlds-first-utility-scale-hydrogen-power-plant/#comment-8799 John Bailo Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:12:03 +0000 http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=4989#comment-8799 This sounds like everything a Green could ask for, but of course, it seems you have to troll it with all negatives. Why does Green hate hydrogen so much? Because it eliminates CO2 entirely...and makes Green irrelevant. This sounds like everything a Green could ask for, but of course, it seems you have to troll it with all negatives. Why does Green hate hydrogen so much? Because it eliminates CO2 entirely…and makes Green irrelevant.

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