Comments on: Tres Amigas wants to take cheap electric power away from hard-working Texas families

By: Tom

Tom — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:49:24 +0000

Note: the snide “Tom” above is not this Tom.

This Tom made it far past Econ 101, where they let you in on the “secret” that many (and I believe most) markets are not efficient, and Econ 101 level analysis does not apply. Econ 101 results are normally only a rough approximation of reality, and they are often simply wrong.

I also made it a ways past Physics 101, and I agree with D.O.U.G. In alternating current, electrons will wiggle, and some will drift, but they are not going to flow. Net electron flow is zero, in either case.

By: Tom

Tom — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 12:22:25 +0000

My Dear D.O.U.G.,

Missed out on Physics 101, did you? Skipped all the classes? Now hear this. AC or DC, makes no difference. Electrons flow, just like the earth moves. Go back to that class and learn the difference between and amp and a volt.

As for all those who worry about prices going up, repeat the above exercise for Econ 101. When you open markets, prices go down, not up. Wanna keep prices high and control the market, close your borders, as ERCOT has surely done. As for Occidentals problem, they don’t want cheaper electric power replacing their expensive oil and gas, especially since they aren’t in the wind energy business as some other oil companies (BP and Exxon come to mind) have done.

By: Michael Giberson

Michael Giberson — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:39:14 +0000

Florida would be another natural spot for exploration of alternative RTO-style market designs.

By: Michael Giberson

Michael Giberson — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:37:51 +0000

I’m in favor of keeping ERCOT and associated power systems and markets, etc., mostly under the regulatory authority of the PUC of Texas. However, I think the time has come to carve out explicit federal legal authority by which ERCOT continues to be regulated by the PUC of Texas without having to interfere with interstate commerce. Actual legal authority would avoid the need for these little filings asking FERC’s continued forbearance every time an ERCOT-linked entity wants to do something around the ERCOT/rest-of-the-fricken-modern-world boundary.

Regularize the arrangement and allow ERCOT and Texas to continue the very useful “laboratory of democracy-stye” exploration and experimentation with market designs that differ from FERC-regulated RTOs. We need more experiments, not fewer, but let’s do it on the up and up so we don’t have to impede trade to allow it.

By: D.O.U.G.

D.O.U.G. — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:18:23 +0000

No, Tres Amigas is a DC link. DC doesn’t allow interstate commerce, and therefore can’t affect prices on either side. Right? Blocking Tres Amigas on the basis of the effect on the local power market wouldn’t constitute restraint of trade, because there is no trade across the DC links into ERCOT now , and because there is sufficient precedent in blocking the line from PV into SoCal. But that was AC, where electrons don’t actually move across state lines; they just wiggle. This one is DC, where the electrons actually DO move. Thank goodness the net electron flow is zero, or there might be a product crossing state lines. Oh, wait, electron flow is net zero in AC, too! Oh, how do we ever get anything done? Politics overrules economics, but ignores physics.

By: Tom

Tom — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:47:13 +0000

Do Texas politicians complain when people in neighboring states buy Texas beef, and drive up the price of Texas BBQ? I guess it’s just too much to expect consistency.