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	<title>Comments on: Integrating variable energy resources to the electric power grid (cont.)</title>
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	<link>http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/04/27/integrating-variable-energy-resources-to-the-electric-power-grid-cont/</link>
	<description>Commentary on Economics, Information and Human Action</description>
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		<title>By: D.O.U.G.</title>
		<link>http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/04/27/integrating-variable-energy-resources-to-the-electric-power-grid-cont/#comment-17035</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D.O.U.G.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2010 03:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=6743#comment-17035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kudos, I agree that AWEA knows better, which is why I label their comments &quot;deceptive&quot; rather than merely &quot;foolish.&quot; Perhaps it&#039;s foolish for them to think that they can prevail with such arguments, but unfortunately we&#039;ll have to wait and see if they&#039;re successful with it. I wish we could file guffaws and chuckles in response to such things. ;) We need a Jon Stewart in this business!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos, I agree that AWEA knows better, which is why I label their comments &#8220;deceptive&#8221; rather than merely &#8220;foolish.&#8221; Perhaps it&#8217;s foolish for them to think that they can prevail with such arguments, but unfortunately we&#8217;ll have to wait and see if they&#8217;re successful with it. I wish we could file guffaws and chuckles in response to such things. <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  We need a Jon Stewart in this business!</p>
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		<title>By: kudos</title>
		<link>http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/04/27/integrating-variable-energy-resources-to-the-electric-power-grid-cont/#comment-16923</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kudos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 04:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=6743#comment-16923</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: Re: $1.50 for back up power

You forgot the ICAP charge that is required to have the capacity there to provide the operating and supplemental reserve capacity to provide the energy.  AWEA is foolish to imply that the long-term backup cost is equatable to the short-term operating reserve costs.  And they are equally as foolish to assert that regulation capacity is procured by RTOs to meet day ahead VER uncertainty.  There is a difference in the quantity of ancillary services that are procured in the day ahead planning and how such reserves are deployed in real time.  AWEA knows that, but they still submit foolish comments to the FERC.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Re: $1.50 for back up power</p>
<p>You forgot the ICAP charge that is required to have the capacity there to provide the operating and supplemental reserve capacity to provide the energy.  AWEA is foolish to imply that the long-term backup cost is equatable to the short-term operating reserve costs.  And they are equally as foolish to assert that regulation capacity is procured by RTOs to meet day ahead VER uncertainty.  There is a difference in the quantity of ancillary services that are procured in the day ahead planning and how such reserves are deployed in real time.  AWEA knows that, but they still submit foolish comments to the FERC.</p>
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		<title>By: D.O.U.G.</title>
		<link>http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/04/27/integrating-variable-energy-resources-to-the-electric-power-grid-cont/#comment-16918</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D.O.U.G.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Apr 2010 03:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=6743#comment-16918</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, if $1.50 was a backup charge with no energy, while the $30-$60 charge is an actual energy charge, then the woe-is-me statement in the article was simply deceptive. This really is going to get ugly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, if $1.50 was a backup charge with no energy, while the $30-$60 charge is an actual energy charge, then the woe-is-me statement in the article was simply deceptive. This really is going to get ugly.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Giberson</title>
		<link>http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/04/27/integrating-variable-energy-resources-to-the-electric-power-grid-cont/#comment-16815</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Giberson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=6743#comment-16815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In response to kudos&#039; question, yes NERC filed comments.  See http://www.nerc.com/files/Final%20Final%20VER%20NOI%20Comments.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to kudos&#8217; question, yes NERC filed comments.  See <a href="http://www.nerc.com/files/Final%20Final%20VER%20NOI%20Comments.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.nerc.com/files/Final%20Final%20VER%20NOI%20Comments.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Michael Giberson</title>
		<link>http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/04/27/integrating-variable-energy-resources-to-the-electric-power-grid-cont/#comment-16814</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Giberson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=6743#comment-16814</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: $1.50 for back up power.

Reference resembles the average price for reserve services in NYISO. (To cite a random recent report, the MMU&#039;s 3rd quarter 2009 report for NYISO indicates a real-time 10-minute spinning reserve price for East NYISO of $1.75, and a real-time non-spinning reserve price for East NYISO of $0.70 per MWh.)

Of course that price is the price paid to keep a unit on standby; if the reserve unit is dispatched for energy it will be paid a market price for the energy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: $1.50 for back up power.</p>
<p>Reference resembles the average price for reserve services in NYISO. (To cite a random recent report, the MMU&#8217;s 3rd quarter 2009 report for NYISO indicates a real-time 10-minute spinning reserve price for East NYISO of $1.75, and a real-time non-spinning reserve price for East NYISO of $0.70 per MWh.)</p>
<p>Of course that price is the price paid to keep a unit on standby; if the reserve unit is dispatched for energy it will be paid a market price for the energy.</p>
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		<title>By: Fat Man</title>
		<link>http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/04/27/integrating-variable-energy-resources-to-the-electric-power-grid-cont/#comment-16806</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fat Man]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 15:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=6743#comment-16806</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, expecting electricity to be available to be available when and as much as wanted is such a quaint old fashioned notion, sort of like abstaining from sex outside of marriage. All the fashionable people want their electricity to be available when the wind decides to blow or in the day time only. They think the US should be just like Pakistan. 

&quot;Pakistanis Living on Brink, and Often in the Dark&quot; by Sabrina Tavernise in The New York Times on April 27, 2010 at page A8.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/asia/27lahore.html

We are so boned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, expecting electricity to be available to be available when and as much as wanted is such a quaint old fashioned notion, sort of like abstaining from sex outside of marriage. All the fashionable people want their electricity to be available when the wind decides to blow or in the day time only. They think the US should be just like Pakistan. </p>
<p>&#8220;Pakistanis Living on Brink, and Often in the Dark&#8221; by Sabrina Tavernise in The New York Times on April 27, 2010 at page A8.<br />
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/asia/27lahore.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/world/asia/27lahore.html</a></p>
<p>We are so boned.</p>
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		<title>By: D.O.U.G.</title>
		<link>http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/04/27/integrating-variable-energy-resources-to-the-electric-power-grid-cont/#comment-16798</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[D.O.U.G.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 13:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=6743#comment-16798</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[Referring to NYT article] Backup power for $1.50? Did I read that right? What are they referring to? Nuke and hydro? 

I see reliability engineers struggling to get an analytical handle on wind generation&#039;s ability to support reliability. Wind generation is a fact, and the possibility of much more is accepted, but it is going to take time (and price exposure) for solutions to emerge to physically accommodate wind&#039;s variability, and then to optimize around it. Hiding or ignoring the price signals won&#039;t help anybody.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[Referring to NYT article] Backup power for $1.50? Did I read that right? What are they referring to? Nuke and hydro? </p>
<p>I see reliability engineers struggling to get an analytical handle on wind generation&#8217;s ability to support reliability. Wind generation is a fact, and the possibility of much more is accepted, but it is going to take time (and price exposure) for solutions to emerge to physically accommodate wind&#8217;s variability, and then to optimize around it. Hiding or ignoring the price signals won&#8217;t help anybody.</p>
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		<title>By: energy</title>
		<link>http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/04/27/integrating-variable-energy-resources-to-the-electric-power-grid-cont/#comment-16770</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[energy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 04:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=6743#comment-16770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is this not unlike here in BC where the government is letting the private sector in the wind industry put up the funds and take the unknown risk.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this not unlike here in BC where the government is letting the private sector in the wind industry put up the funds and take the unknown risk.</p>
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		<title>By: kudos</title>
		<link>http://knowledgeproblem.com/2010/04/27/integrating-variable-energy-resources-to-the-electric-power-grid-cont/#comment-16766</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kudos]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 04:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://knowledgeproblem.com/?p=6743#comment-16766</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you think the label &quot;old guard&quot; is used pejoratively, or is it actually a complement to those that believe that maintaining reliable electricity service is a requirement and not merely an aspiration?  Oh, right, NYT....nevermind.  Did NERC file comments?  They are very &quot;old guard.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you think the label &#8220;old guard&#8221; is used pejoratively, or is it actually a complement to those that believe that maintaining reliable electricity service is a requirement and not merely an aspiration?  Oh, right, NYT&#8230;.nevermind.  Did NERC file comments?  They are very &#8220;old guard.&#8221;</p>
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